(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.00]
PW[Cho U]PB[Mizogami Tomochika]WR[9p]BR[8p]EV[Honinbo league]
(;N[episode172.sgf]
(;B[pd]
;W[dd]
;B[qp]
;W[dq]
;B[oq]
;W[nc]
;B[lc]
;W[pf]
;B[nd]
;W[md]
;B[mc]
;W[qd]
(;B[oc]
;W[qc]
;B[ne]
;W[qh]
;B[co]
;W[ck]
;B[cf]
;W[ch]
;B[fd]
;W[df]
;B[dg]
;W[cg]
;B[dc]
(;W[bf]LB[ce:A]C[I would like to discuss White's move on the 2nd line, instead of the common joseki at A.
I tried it myself with success. Most of my opponents played san-san next, which is a bad answer, I think.

AN: I've never seen this response before, but it looks interesting. ]
(;B[cc]LB[ce:A]C[I have other examples from professional games, where Black played at 3-3.
For example, Imamura Toshiya 9p also played 3-3 in his game with Yamada Kimio in 2004.
But I feel that in case of such answer, White's stone on the 2nd line works better, comparing to standard stone at A. Do you agree that Black's move at 3-3 is not best?

AN: I agree. If Black plays like this, White will tenuki, and the shape of this is better than the normal one at A for White. ]
;W[cp]LB[bd:A][ef:B]C[How Black can continue later? I see sente moves at A or B, but they are not so painful and Black cannot get them both - only one of them.
Black has much more useful sente moves after the standard joseki

AN: You're right. Black will choose either A or B later, but since Black can't use the both A and B in sente, this result seems to be better for White comparing to the normal pattern. ]
(;B[hq]
;W[do]
;B[kp]
;W[pm]
;B[nm]
;W[pk]
;B[ff]
;W[ge]
;B[ed]
;W[ce]
;B[hg]
;W[jf]
;B[jg]
;W[kc]
;B[kd]
;W[kg]
;B[jh]
;W[jd]
;B[jc]
;W[ke]
;B[kb]
;W[kh]
;B[ki]
;W[mh]
;B[li]
;W[ng]
;B[nj]
;W[oo]
;B[np]
;W[no]
;B[pj]
;W[ok]
;B[oj]
;W[nk]
;B[qe]
;W[qf]
;B[pe]
;W[re]
;B[mk]
;W[ml]
;B[lk]
;W[qj]
;B[pi]
;W[mi]
;B[mj]
;W[qi]
;B[rf]
;W[rd]
;B[mg]
;W[hf]
;B[gg]
;W[mf]
;B[og]
;W[oh]
;B[nf]
;W[lg]
;B[ph]
;W[ld]
;B[id]
;W[of]
;B[je]
;W[me]
;B[if]
;W[nb]
;B[qg]
;W[pg]
;B[ob]
;W[rp]
;B[pp]
;W[ro]
;B[qn]
;W[qo]
;B[po]
;W[pn]
;B[rq]
;W[qq]
;B[pq]
;W[rn]
;B[er]
;W[fp]
;B[dn]
;W[cn]
;B[fq]
;W[eq]
;B[gr]
;W[hp]
;B[dl]
;W[en]
;B[dk]
;W[iq]
;B[jq]
;W[ip]
;B[ir]
;W[cl]
;B[dm]
;W[bo]
;B[dj]
;W[gp]
;B[gq]
;W[pc]
;B[od]
;W[pb]
;B[na]
;W[fl]
;B[gk]
;W[fk]
;B[fj]
;W[ej]
;B[gl]
;W[fi]
;B[gj]
;W[ek]
;B[di]
;W[ei]
;B[dh]
;W[gm]
;B[ef]
;W[fh]
;B[fg]
;W[bd]
;B[hm]
;W[gn]
;B[il]
;W[bb]
;B[bc]
;W[ac]
;B[cb]
;W[mp]
;B[mq]
;W[mm]
;B[mn]
;W[mo]
;B[ln]
;W[nl]
;B[nn]
;W[on]
;B[cr]
;W[hh]
;B[hi]
;W[rr]
;B[qr]
;W[sq]
;B[qq]
;W[km]
;B[ll]
;W[lm]
;B[ko]
;W[dr]
;B[ds]
;W[br]
;B[bj]
;W[gh]
;B[ih]
;W[bs]
;B[cj]
;W[bl]
;B[ag]
;W[ab]
;B[ba]
;W[af]
;B[cs]
;W[cq]
;B[es]
;W[sr]
;B[lp]
;W[kl]
;B[kk]
;W[kf]
;B[rs]
;W[jp]
;B[kr]
;W[ai]
;B[bi]
;W[bh]
;B[aj]
;W[ah]
;B[bm]
;W[cm]
;B[al]
;W[hn]
;B[em]
;W[fm]
;B[im]
;W[gi]
;B[jl])
(;B[ce]C[We can also check the aji of this stone. Black cannot fight here, right?

AN: Right. It's not a good idea for Black to move that atarid stone. ]
;W[cd]
;B[de]
;W[ee]
;B[be]
;W[bd]
;B[ef]
;W[ae]
;B[df]
;W[ed]LB[ec:A][fe:B]C[Black escaped, but his shape is heavy. We cannot call it useful

AN: Black's in deep trouble since A and B are miai for White. ]))
(;B[cd]
;W[ce]
;B[ed]
;W[de]
;B[cc]LB[cd:A]C[How about this pattern? Black's corner is bigger, but now White has ideal shape

AN: I don't think it's a good idea for Black. It's not better than just extending at 3-3 instead of hane at A. ])
(;B[dp]C[I think that tennuki is the right punishment. For example, Black can play kosumi and create sabaki here

AN: I agree. Since there's no good follow-up, playing somewhere else seems to be the best. ]
;W[eq]
;B[cq]
;W[cr]
;B[bq]
;W[hq]
;B[qi]LB[cc:A]C[AN: This attachment is interesting. I think Black can also come back at A, because the lower left corner's done. ]
;W[pi]
;B[qj]
;W[rh]
;B[pj]
;W[cc]C[Now White has sente and he can get the corner]
;B[ec]
;W[cb]
;B[ef]
;W[de]
;B[gf]C[White's territory is big, but his shape is slightly overconcentrated
I feel that the game is better for Black now

AN: The game still looks even to me, but yes, Black's position is more active. ]))
(;W[ce]
;B[cc]C[This is the classic joseki]
;W[cp]
;B[bf]
;W[be]
;B[ef]
;W[de]LB[bd:A][dh:B]C[Later Black can use sente moves at A or B

AN: Right. ]))
(;B[ne]LB[fd:A]C[Extending up here is also possible.
This stresses influence more and is good when black wants to create a moyo.
Usually therefore black has supporting stones in the area, For example around A]
;W[qc]
(;B[pb]C[Also possible])
(;B[oc]C[This would revert back to the game])))
(;W[dd]
(;B[fd]
;W[df]
;B[dc]
;W[cc]
;B[ec]
;W[cb]
;B[jc]
;W[ch]
;B[dg]
;W[cg]
;B[cf]
;W[bf]
;B[ef]
;W[de]LB[ch:A]C[We can use tewari and get exactly the same shape as after tenuki.
White's extension at A is too narrow and Black got useful sente moves later. Can we say that according to tewari, this result is good for Black?

AN: It looks pretty even. Even though White spent one more move here, the corner territory is very solid and ]
;B[pp]
;W[id]
;B[ic]
;W[gd]
;B[gc]
;W[hd]
;B[hc]
;W[fe]LB[bf:B][ef:A]C[AN: White can also play like this later, if Black doesn't keep playing after atari at A. 
For the conclusion, atari at B looks playable. If Black plays 3-3, that'd be better for White, and even if Black tenuki, White can come back to the take the corner, and it looks alright. One negative point is that Black could tenuki when White atari at B. ])
(;B[cf]
;W[ch]
;B[fc]
;W[df]
;B[dg]
;W[cg]
;B[dc]
;W[bf]C[I also tried this answer with low kakari on the top. Most of my opponents played 3-3 too
]
;B[]C[Can we say that even now tenuki is the best choice?

AN: Yes, it's best for B to play tenuki]
;W[cc]C[Can we say that even now tenuki is the best choice?

AN: Yes, it's best for B to play tenuki]
;B[cb]
;W[cd]
;B[eb]C[What do you think about this result?

AN: It's playable for both I think.])))
(;N[episode172-part2.sgf]
;B[pd]
;W[dp]
;B[pp]
;W[ed]
;B[cd]
;W[cc]
;B[ic]
;W[bd]
;B[ce]
;W[be]
;B[dc]
;W[dd]
;B[cf]
;W[cb]
;B[dj]
;W[nc]
;B[lc]
;W[qf]
;B[nd]
;W[md]
;B[mc]
;W[qc]LB[oc:A][qd:B]C[I have about 1600 examples of this pattern in my database, played by 6d+ players, including almost 200 pro vs pro examples, but there are only 2 answers here: A or B
Is it possible to use our previous idea now and play 2nd line atari here? 

]
(;B[qd]LB[nb:B][ic:A]C[In the real game Cho Daehyun, 9p who likes to play for influence decided to block here. His style is close to well known Takemiya Masaki, 9p
White is played by Yoo Changhyuk.
AN: You're right. Normally this pattern is good for Black, but in this game, because of the short extension at A, the result looks even. 
In this kind of special case, atari at B instead of blocking here is conceivable. ]
;W[od]
;B[ne]
;W[oe]
;B[oc]
;W[pc]
;B[nb]
;W[ob]
;B[nc]
;W[pe]LB[nb:A][qd:B]TR[ic]C[It's a joseki. I heard the opinion that locally it's better for Black, because he is so thick
But now I don't like Black's position here, because the marked stone is too close to Black's thickness.
Can we call Black's position overconcentrated?

AN: Yes, I feel the same. The marked stone is placed too close, and it's an overconcentrated position. 
As a result, atari at A instead of blocking at B would be playable in this case with the marked stone at the top. ]
;B[fq]
;W[cn]
;B[dr]
;W[cq]
;B[iq]
;W[qn]
;B[np]
;W[rp]
;B[qq]
;W[pl]
;B[fd]
;W[ef]
;B[fe]
;W[df]
;B[ch]
;W[fc]
;B[gc]
;W[fb]
;B[cl]
;W[cr]
;B[bn]
;W[bo]
;B[kp]
;W[gb]
;B[hd]
;W[pj]
;B[rd]
;W[rc]
;B[of]
;W[pg]
;B[pb]
;W[qa]
;B[rq]
;W[nh]
;B[nm]
;W[ml]
;B[mm]
;W[ll]
;B[qb]
;W[rb]
;B[oa]
;W[qe]
;B[lm]
;W[kl]
;B[km]
;W[jl]
;B[lg]
;W[bm]
;B[li]
;W[fj]
;B[bl]
;W[ff]
;B[ro]
;W[qo]
;B[rn]
;W[rm]
;B[qp]
;W[bg]
;B[cm]
;W[an]
;B[bh]
;W[cg]
;B[hg]
;W[di]
;B[ci]
;W[dk]
;B[dh]
;W[ii]
;B[ih]
;W[ji]
;B[dg]
;W[bf]
;B[og]
;W[oh]
;B[jh]
;W[cj]
;B[bj]
;W[ej]
;B[em]
;W[gm]
;B[hi]
;W[hj]
;B[gi]
;W[gj]
;B[hb]
;W[gp]
;B[gq]
;W[sn]
;B[sp]
;W[ck]
;B[bk]
;W[ai]
;B[fp]
;W[ge]
;B[gd]
;W[on]
;B[eq]
;W[in]
;B[ki]
;W[hp]
;B[fn]
;W[ip]
;B[jq]
;W[gh]
;B[hh]
;W[dn]
;B[go]
;W[fm]
;B[en]
;W[el]
;B[fh]
;W[gg]
;B[kj]
;W[ah]
;B[bi]
;W[oo]
;B[jo]
;W[jn]
;B[kn]
;W[gn]
;B[ij]
;W[ik]
;B[jk]
;W[mj]
;B[ra]
;W[sa]
;B[so]
;W[sm]
;B[nl]
;W[nk]
;B[ol]
;W[pk]
;B[cs]
;W[bs]
;B[ds]
;W[dq]
;B[fr]
;W[br]
;B[no]
;W[mg]
;B[mf]
;W[re]
;B[mi]
;W[ni]
;B[ok]
;W[oj]
;B[il]
;W[hk]
;B[jm]
;W[im]
;B[kk]
;W[fi]
;B[fg]
;W[gf]
;B[dm]
;W[mh]
;B[lh]
;W[ha]
;B[ia]
;W[ga]
;B[hf]
;W[he]
;B[ie]
;W[po]
;B[op]
;W[om]
;B[hq]
;W[nn]
;B[mn]
;W[ho]
;B[fo]
;W[jp]
;B[aj]
;W[ag]
;B[lk]
;W[mk]
;B[al]
;W[am]
;B[do]
;W[co]
;B[eo])
(;B[nb]LB[qd:A]C[White can only connect at A now. Do you see any other choices?

AN: I can only think of A for the next move. ]
;W[qd]
(;W[oc]C[When black plays tenuki..
AN: This move doesn't look working. ]
;B[pc]
;W[ob]
;B[pb]
;W[od]
;B[oe]
;W[ne]
;B[oa]
;W[nd]
;B[pe]C[It is still difficult for White to use the aji of that stone

AN: You're right. ])
(;W[ne]LB[nb:B][pb:A]C[AN: White can just atari here or play at A to exploit later. Which means the atari at B is not a bad answer, because there's no good follow-up for White.]))))
